Conservative Soup - food for thought

Ha! that would work too. Problem is...he is proud of what he did.

Will
 

hmmm, For as much as I would like to go "medieval" on this guy, the thought of him sharing a little cell with Mario and Bubba at Sing-Sing Federal Prison is lip curling indeed..Maybe 8 hours a day of rock chipping, followed by the Homies from Chihuahua singing the National Anthem in Spanish to his ear, The sounds of an additional orifice being created every night courtesy of the Sisters of perpetual Sodomy, having to stare at the foldout of Miss November every day and knowing it will be 50 years before there are any vestal virgins to be had,.... works for me. The death penalty is too easy. Let the boys be boys.
 

The Left is "celebrating"? "Fanfare"? Oh yes, I'm dancing a jig over here. Right.

Been drinking the Coulter/Hannity Kool-Aid again? Not supporting the war does not mean supporting terrorists. You should know that by now.

I thought you Muslim haters out there would GET the fact that executing this guy makes him the martyr he so obviously wants to be. He's going to be PO'd till the day he dies that his plane never got off the ground. Killing him only serves his purposes, and quite nicely. Having him sit in a cell for the rest of his days foils his plot, and makes him look like a failure.

Killing him also might make you feel better, but it 1) doesn't bring back a single 9/11 victim from the dead, and 2) will not deter a single future terrorist from doing this kind of thing again. But I'm obviously not going to get very far arguing against the death penalty here...

Besides, if folks like this want to kill Americans, all they have to do now is go to Iraq.

Lastly, based on what I heard and read during this trial, does anybody else get the feeling that this guy is delusional? (NOTE: NOT an excuse for not punishing him, so stop thinking what you're thinking if that's what you're thinking.) Did anybody else get the feeling that this was a wanna-be more than a bona fide al Quaeda operative? Just wondering.
 

Hannity/Coulter Kool-Aid? does that come in barrels or Gallons?, do you know if they have kiwi-Strawberry flavor on that?
Hey QuakerDave, you make a very good point. Sitting in jail rotting is the worst thing for this guy and a black eye to the Muslim radicals who use religion as a weapon. As to being a muslim-haters? Well, maybe you should clarify who has said that... I for one have never used that term in a self-description or heard that view espoused in this blog but I could be wrong,... Will? Milt? You guys dousing the Muslim with hatefull kool-aid?
The death penalty is a grand topic upon itselt. I believe in society's right to implement laws as the majority dictates, but for me, why give them the easy out. Let criminals pay with hard labor, back-breaking manual work, solitary confinement forever, bread and water for their 3 square meals a day. THAT is punishment. A needle in the arm sounds too soothing for my taste.
 

I just figured I'd engage in gross generalizations since you guys did. If you're not haters, then it might also be fair to assume that people who oppose the war in Iraq do so because of legitimate disagreements with this regime over policy AND a deep and honest belief, based partially upon our chosen faith, that war is wrong.

Insisting that those who oppose the war and the President's policies are "fans" of terrorists is at best illogical and at worst dishonest and insulting.

I can love my country, and at the same time intensely distrust and dislike my elected officials.

And I am sure you guys felt the same way under our last president.
 

Am I right?
 

"You guys"? who are you referring to Dave? I am a Libertarian Party Independent who thinks both Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin. (not the electorate, just the elected officials). I've been against THIS particular war since its inception just on the principal that to oust one Dicator beckons a slippery slope of killing every despot in the planet. Our platform (Liebertarians) is based on non-foreign intervention and letting countries take care of their own back yards. I love my country, served in it, bleed for it and would die for it if called upon. I too disagree with this war but never let my opinions demoralize the poor boys in the front lines getting the hail of bullets. I was in the military in the 80's during Reagan. I fully know how it feels like to read the press slap you around... like WE had anything to do with policy.
Your opinions are well founded and well written. It's good to see others vent and express differences without the verbal bombs. Great commentary.
 

I'm sure if you spend some time on my blog, you will retract that line about the "verbal bombs"... Just ask Will.
 

Maybe a should correct. Verbal bombs are good as it relates to heavy, deep and thoughtfull opinions laced with force, conviction and Satire. I guess by "bomb" i mean the bone-heads who just like the sound of their own voice (or keyboard) and have nothing of logic to contribute, I just visited your blog Dave,... Loved it!
 

I never said that those against the war are against the U.S. I never said that those against the war are fans of the terrorists. Wow...but, to say that we are Muslim-haters? That IS typical Leftist hate-mongering. So far as I know, the leftists throw way way more personal attacks like that around than Milt or me. And all it is based upon is difference of opinion. Imagine how angry our visiting leftists would be is I DID say the things you claim I did. But, I didn't, I don't, and I won't.

When I say the anti-capital punishment crowd is celebrating that this man is not being executed, was I mistaken? Answer that question for me.

Will that same crowd be outward in the celebration? That was the other point to the post...truthful answers only, please.

A couple final points: the Middle East is FULL of martyrs...what is one more???

No person mistrusts government than a those that espouse LESS OF IT, read: libertarians and the TRUE liberals...those that believe in individual LIBERTY...that would be: TRUE conservatives.

Will
 

I prefer the comments by Carie Lemack, who lost her mom on 9/11. She is also a founder of Families of September 11:

"He's an al Qaeda wanna-be. And he does not deserve any credit for 9/11, because he was not part of it. And I'm so glad the jury recognized that."

"We have to look at the real problems in this country. If we're going to blame Zacarias Moussaoui, he's not the real problem. The real problem are the terrorists who do want to kill us, like Osama bin Laden, who is still not captured."

I fail to see what a death sentence would achieve in this case. I believe the jury made a logical decision.

Plus, as dardin edward pointed out, the death penality is just too easy. Let the guy suffer in jail for the rest of his miserable life, knowing he failed to reach his delusion of martyrdom. He'll be having the time of his life in the "Alcatraz of the Rockies."

I don't have a problem with the death penality, by the way. However, it should be used only in the most heinous of crimes, such as first degree murder.

I haven't seen one person celebrating this verdict. Believing this sentence was justice served does not equal "celebration."

However, I appreciate your viewpoint Will. There are plenty of 9/11 families who would agree with you, no doubt.
 

The bottom line is that this clown is the ONLY person charged and convicted for 9/11, thats why he is all over the news, Sarah. I agree fully that he was a back-bencher and too dumb not to be in the starting line-up of would-be homicide-pilots. He should NOT have gotten this much pub,... but the 24hr news cable media HAS to fill their time with something. This was way too juicy for them not to cover wall to wall. I say give him his own reality show,... ship him off to Bahrain so he can hang with Michael jackson and watch them compare notes on how unfair and bad America really is. You want to end the war on terrorism?... make a statement of such magnitude that the very idea of attacking America is an automatic death sentence to whatever part of the world that hosts such zealots. You will see Governments shaking the cockroaches and getting rid of the madrasas in 20 minutes. But we really are not too serious. We dont have the balls anymore. We are concerned with the Arab street, the ACLU, World opinion, the U.N., ex-presidents spewing off,..... America the beautiful is also America the emasculated. Let's just give ourselves back to England.
 

Sarah

Those are all great points. I really don't care whether he lives or dies. My post was really aimed at keeping the idea of absolutes (as it pertains to "no war", "no capital punishment", "no this", "no that" in perspective. It is usually somewhere within the black and white that we find hypocrisy...

Will
 

Emasculated indeed! We certainly have gone the way of the inept.
 

Will, I have an opinion (of our Prez)on my blog that I needs your commenting...
 

Well, I'm sure glad we cleared THAT up.

While I don't think I'll be "celebrating" this decision (that's a verb I usually associate with birthdays, etc.), I will be totally honest with you when I tell you I am glad that Z.M. will not be put to death. Not smiling-all-day glad, like glad I'm done another smester of grad school glad, but glad that justice, as I see it, was served. Because I believe that the death penalty is an injustice. A crime against humanity. That we as Americans should be better than that, and better than those who would carry out these crimes. We did not stoop to the level of the beheaders and the suicide bombers. His life in lockdown will be miserable and lonely. I have seen the inside of a jail (as a teacher). He won't be at Club Med for the next 40-50 years.

Will, if I said something I should not have regarding your view of the left being "fans" of terrorists, then I am guilty of generalizing, which is not fair, and for that, I apologize. BUT YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, there are a LOT of conservatives of thr rah-rah pro-war persuasion (Limburger and Hannity are the worst, besides Coulter and Savage on this, and I DO actually listen to their drivel, not just read "Media Matters" for my "data") who are very open in expressing this view.

As for the "emasculating" of America, that would depend on your definition of masculinity, I guess. Our local Limbaugh wannabe called this verdict the "sissyfication" of America. Like we're sissyboys, I guess. So now we can throw some homophobia into the mix? Being a man means, what, ya gotta kill somethin'?

So who did Jesus kill?
 

Homophobia?... hmmm, thats an interesting word to use in connecting the dots to make a point. Just for disclosure's sake (and not that i feel I have to justify my position, but I try to be transparent)I live in one of the most progressive areas in the world (The San Francisco Bay area), some of my musician friends are homosexuals, some are Log Cabin republicans, some liberals. To extrapolate "homophobia" some radio jock saying "sissyfication" is to be miopic in your perceptions of what he said. I say sissy all the time. IS is a term used to demean someone as weak and non-man like?, yes. But i will leave that alone, I am trying really hard not to extrapolate any judgements of you based on that flip remark.
Moving on, as to who did Jesus kill,...lets let our "progressive" minds work a bit. If Jesus is the son, God the Father, and the Holly Spirit rounds up the Holly Trinity, then we can extrapolate that all the people God "killed" in the old testament (the great Flood, etc) were really killed by Jesus since they are in effect one Deity.... you follow me Dave? I dont want to lose you now so try to keep up.
As to the emasculating of America? It was not said in a "sexual" pespective of weakness or strength as espoused by your wanna-be-Limbaugh in your hometown. It was a metaphor that smart Jersey folks like you can surely digest. Let me simplify it somewhat. During simpler times and when America had a backbone to go full bore when called to belicose action, American Presidents did what needed to be done while givin no quarter to collateral damage. Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower and even Kennedy all launched foreign intervention campaings (succesful or not) based on their belief that it was necessary, not based on the concerns of political correctness. That was the thrust (no pun intended) of my "emasculation" statement.
 

Dardin Edward, there is no way to end the war on terror. It's been brewing for years and is no doubt a result of the United States poking in where it does not belong. Plus, you've got the grow of a radical form of Islam which will be near impossible to stop. If these kids have a warped view of the United States, it's because we helped to form that opinion. I expect much better from my country - the United States should be a beacon of humanitarianism. No doubt many private religious and public charities have helped to relieve suffering worldwide - these individuals spread the soul of America to others in need.

As for the bombing of Japan, people are still suffering from the aftermath. It's easier to be masculine when you don't have to worry about who you are harming in the process. I'm a woman, and I can't think of children as "collateral." It might be a politically correct way of thinking, but I won't reduce innocent people to animals because they happen to be from a country that is not America. As far as I'm concerned, America has a MUCH better moral compass than in did in more "simple" times. Therefore, it is natural for so many people to be so outraged about the events going on in Iraq.

Thanks for poking around my blog - I will definitely visit yours. I always enjoy different viewpoints, even if I disagree with them. : )
 

Sarah, although I can agree that both Japan and Germany still suffer the physical and phsycological wounds of those events, it is known that it would have taken well over 150,000 lives of our men to invade Japan and bring it to its knees. WE did not start that war, but we ended it in the way we thought best for our country not theirs. Not a perfect answer or solution, of that I am fully aware. I agree that our moral compass has changed since then. I dont know if it is better or worse,...maybe more complicated in my view, as morality is a highly subjective thing. The children,... yes. As a loving father of a 5-year old I have calibrated my views on many things since she was born. Woman and children are the pain-bearers of a mostly man-mandated policy. That is one area I agree has to be opened for discussion and change.
Concerning terrorism, I completely agree that because of our century-long way of getting our beaks in everybody's business that it is a major reason why resentment and hate for America is so prevalent. I don't call for Woodrow Wilson type Isolationism, but I would LOVE if we bought ALL our troops whithin our borders and stopped being the world's policeman. THAT would be a day to celebrate.
Lastly, as I mentioned to our brother Dave in Jersey, my "masculine" comments were not said with a sexist angle or implying of weakness or strength, only conviction and giving no quarter. If they came out that way, my apologies if I offended anyones sensitivities. I can raise hell with the best of 'em but I try not to let the messenger get in the way of the messenger. Thanks for your comments!
 

P.S.
One factor about the jury decision that has not been spoken-about much is this. Leaving the bastard alive in some prison is going to be a reason for somebody in some part of the world to kidnap somebody (man or woman) totally inocent and hold him or her captive while demanding his release from Prison. Death would have eliminated this possibility (albeit adding yet another martyr, but who's counting). Once they get no reply or cosideration, the poor victim will get their mellon cut-off for all Al-Jazeera to see live and in hi-definition TV's. Not trying to justify the death sentence... I'm pretty neutral on the subject. But as all things in life, the action/reaction of anything is never fully known.
 

Dardin, I think we have a very good wavelength going on here. I find myself nodding with many of your comments.

Hey, maybe I'm a libertarian? : 0

; )

The World's Smallest Political Quiz always tells me I am, hehehe.....
 

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